Mastering Embroidery on the Back of Hats: Techniques, Tools, and Expert Tips

1. Introduction: The Art and Challenges of Back-of-Hat Embroidery

Embroidering on the back of hats using embroidery hats machine is a craft that combines creativity with technical finesse. Unlike front embroidery, the back of a cap presents unique hurdles—think pronounced curves, pesky straps, and a limited, highly visible space that leaves little room for error. The interplay of the hat’s curvature, sweatband, and closure mechanisms (velcro, snapback, or fitted) means every project is a new puzzle to solve. In this guide, we’ll unravel the secrets to mastering back-of-hat embroidery: from selecting the right tools and hooping systems, to step-by-step techniques, visual learning resources, best practices, and advanced digitizing tips. Whether you’re a seasoned embroiderer or just starting out, get ready to transform those tricky hat backs into canvases for crisp, professional designs.

Table of Contents

• 1. Introduction: The Art and Challenges of Back-of-Hat Embroidery
• 2. Essential Tools and Equipment for Successful Hat Back Embroidery
• 3. Step-by-Step Guide: Embroidering Hat Backs Like a Pro
• 4. Best Practices and Troubleshooting for Flawless Results
• 5. Advanced Digitizing Techniques for Curved Hat Backs
• 6. Method Comparison: Traditional vs. Specialized Approaches
• 7. Visual Learning Hub: Video Demonstrations and Tutorials
• 8. Conclusion: Key Takeaways for Hat Back Embroidery Success
• 9. Frequently Asked Questions

2. Essential Tools and Equipment for Successful Hat Back Embroidery

The right tools are the backbone of flawless back-of-hat embroidery. Let’s dive into the specialized systems, stabilizers, and machine aids that set you up for success.

2.1 Specialized Hooping Systems for Curved Surfaces

Back-of-hat embroidery isn’t a one-size-fits-all operation—especially when it comes to hooping. The industry offers a spectrum of solutions, each with its own strengths:

• D-Shaped Frames and Fast Frames (8-in-1 Systems):
  These frames are engineered to hug the curved back of hats, making it much easier to secure the embroidery area. You’ll find D-shaped frames in multi-position kits (like the 8-in-1 or 7-in-1 systems), which come with various sizes for hard-to-reach spots. Fast frames, in particular, are a favorite for their speed and versatility—just stick on your stabilizer, line up the hat, and you’re ready to go. As shown in popular YouTube tutorials, these frames let you embroider on pockets, sleeves, and, of course, the tricky back of caps with minimal fuss.
• Traditional Hoops:
  While not purpose-built for hats, small round hoops (like 12cm or 4.5-inch) can be used for the back of caps, especially when paired with creative setup tricks. A tried-and-true method is the “corner of the table” technique: place your hoop at the edge or corner, allowing the hat’s back to lay flat and centered for hooping. This approach is budget-friendly and works well for occasional projects.
• Alignment Plates and Hooping Aids:
  Some embroiderers use alignment plates with center markings or V-notches, or a hoopmaster hooping station, to ensure perfect placement.
• Sweatband Management:
  Don’t overlook the sweatband! Tutorials show the importance of pulling the sweatband out of the way before hooping. For hats with thick velcro or snapback closures, extra care is needed—these can make hooping more challenging, but with patience and the right frame, you can achieve a snug, flat surface.

In short, while traditional hoops can get the job done, specialized frames and multi-position devices save time, reduce frustration, and boost consistency—especially when you’re tackling multiple hats or working with varied styles.

2.2 Stabilizers and Backing Materials: Choosing Wisely

Stabilization is the unsung hero of crisp embroidery. Here’s how to pick and use the right materials for hat backs:

• Tearaway Backing:
  Tearaway stabilizer is widely recommended as the industry standard for caps. It provides the necessary support during stitching but can be easily removed afterward, leaving a clean finish. For most projects, a single layer suffices, but you can double up if you need extra support—especially with stretchy or mesh caps.
• Adhesive Stabilizers:
  Sticky-back tearaway stabilizers are a game-changer for unstructured or mesh caps. Hoop the stabilizer with the adhesive side up, peel off the protective layer, and press the hat’s back firmly into place. This method keeps even the floppier hat styles stable and wrinkle-free during embroidery.
• 3D Puff Foam:
  Want to add dimension? Two-millimeter 3D puff foam can be placed under the design area before stitching. This technique creates that popular raised “puff” effect, but requires careful digitizing and extra attention to stitch density.
• Placement Strategies:
  Always ensure your stabilizer covers the entire hoop area, even if the hat doesn’t. For extra tricky hats, like those with uneven surfaces or thick closures, consider adding a second layer of backing to fill any gaps and prevent shifting.
• Adhesive Techniques for Mesh/Unstructured Caps:
  For mesh or soft-structured hats, adhesive stabilizers are especially helpful. Some embroiderers use double-sided tape or temporary spray adhesive to keep everything flat and secure before hooping.

The right stabilizer choice and placement can make the difference between a professional finish and a puckered, misaligned disaster.

2.3 Machine Components and Alignment Aids

Your embroidery machine also plays a starring role in back-of-hat success. Here’s what to look for and how to optimize your setup:

• Specialized Throat Plates:
  Many commercial machines come with cap-specific throat plates—these feature a raised collar around the needle hole, helping hats sit level and reducing the risk of fabric snagging. Adjusting the throat plate to match the height of the machine’s underarm can further improve stability.
• Center Seam Alignment Tools:
  Whether it’s a marked plate, a V-notch in your frame, or simply careful visual alignment, centering your design on the hat’s seam is crucial. Some embroiderers add marks to their hoops for quick reference.
• Presser Foot Adjustments:
  Adjusting the presser foot height and pressure can help accommodate the varying thicknesses of different hat styles. This is especially important when working with thick sweatbands or multi-layered backs.
• Machine Brand Considerations:
  Experienced embroiderers often recommend brands like Barudan and Tajima for cap work, citing their robust construction and reliable results. However, with the right setup and stabilizer, home machines can also handle back-of-hat projects—just expect a bit more hands-on adjustment.
• Magnetic Hoops for Garment Embroidery:
  While not suitable for hats, magnetic embroidery hoops like MaggieFrame are a go-to for garment projects, offering superior tension control and ease of use for flat items.

With the right combination of frames, stabilizers, and machine tweaks, you’ll be ready to tackle any hat back with confidence.

3. Step-by-Step Guide: Embroidering Hat Backs Like a Pro

Ready to put theory into practice? Here’s a step-by-step walkthrough for machine embroidery for beginners to achieve crisp, professional embroidery on the back of any cap.

3.1 Preparation: Hooping, Stabilization, and Sweatband Management

1. Gather Your Tools: Choose your hooping system—D-shaped frame, fast frame, or traditional hoop—based on your hat style and machine compatibility. Have your tearaway or adhesive stabilizer ready, along with any alignment plates or guides.

2. Prepare the Stabilizer: If using adhesive tearaway, hoop the stabilizer with the sticky side up and peel off the protective layer. For traditional tearaway, cut it to fit the hoop and ensure it covers the full embroidery area.

3. Position the Hat: Use the corner of a table or a rounded ironing board to help flatten the back of the hat. Pull the sweatband out and away from the embroidery area—this prevents stitching through it, which can make the hat uncomfortable and distort the design.

4. Align and Hoop: Center the hat’s back seam with the hoop’s alignment marks or V-notch. Press the hat firmly onto the adhesive stabilizer (if using), smoothing out any wrinkles. For traditional hoops, carefully close the hoop, ensuring the fabric is taut and evenly tensioned.

5. Secure with Clamps (Optional): For extra stability, use small clamps to hold the hat edges in place on the frame—especially helpful for mesh or unstructured caps.

6. Double-Check Placement: Visually inspect that the design area is flat, centered, and free of obstructions (like straps or tags). A little extra time here saves a lot of frustration later.

3.2 Execution: Orientation, Stitching Sequence, and Tension Control

1. Flip the Design 180 Degrees: In your embroidery software or machine settings, rotate the design so it stitches upside down—this ensures it appears right-side up when the hat is worn.

2. Trace and Center: Use your machine’s trace function to outline the design area, confirming correct placement. Adjust as needed to center the embroidery on the hat’s back seam.

3. Adjust Tension and Speed: Structured caps may require higher tension settings, while unstructured or mesh caps benefit from lighter tension and slower stitching speeds. Always test on a scrap or similar hat first.

4. Start Stitching: Begin the embroidery, watching for any shifting or puckering. For best results, follow a bottom-to-top stitching sequence—this minimizes distortion and ensures a clean finish.

5. Monitor Throughout: Keep an eye on thread tension and bobbin performance. If you notice excess bobbin thread showing or skipped stitches, pause and make adjustments before continuing.

3.3 Finishing: Jump Stitch Removal and Quality Assessment

1. Remove the Hat from the Hoop: Once stitching is complete, carefully unhoop the hat, supporting the embroidery area to avoid stretching.

2. Tear Away the Stabilizer: Gently remove the tearaway backing from the back of the design. For intricate lettering or dense stitching, use tweezers to pick out any small pieces left behind.

3. Trim Jump Stitches: Use sharp embroidery scissors to snip any connecting threads (“jump stitches”) between letters or design elements. This step is crucial for a polished, professional look.

4. Inspect Your Work: Examine the embroidery from both the inside and outside of the hat. Check for loose threads, missed areas, or tension issues. The design should sit flat, with no puckering or distortion.

5. Final Touches: If needed, use a lint roller to clean up stray threads or marks. For hats with visible hoop marks, a light steam or gentle finger pressing can help smooth the fabric.

With these steps, you’ll be well on your way to mastering back-of-hat embroidery—turning every cap into a wearable work of art. Ready to level up? Explore advanced digitizing and troubleshooting in the next sections of our guide!

4. Best Practices and Troubleshooting for Flawless Results

The back of a hat is a small, curved, and sometimes unpredictable canvas. It’s where embroidery dreams can unravel—literally—if you don’t pay attention to the details. Let’s break down the best practices and troubleshooting strategies that separate pro-level results from rookie mistakes.

4.1 Avoiding Common Mistakes: Tension, Placement, and Hoop Slippage

If you’ve ever finished a hat only to spot puckering, off-center text, or a design that looks like it took a detour, you’re not alone. Most issues stem from three main culprits: tension, placement, and hoop slippage.

Thread Tension Protocols According to industry standards (like those from Madeira USA), proper thread tension is non-negotiable. Always check and adjust both your top thread and bobbin tension before starting. If you notice bobbin thread peeking through the top or uneven stitches, pause and tweak the settings. A common tip is to check the bobbin every time you replace it—think of it as buckling your seatbelt before driving. Neglecting bobbin tension is a classic pitfall that can tank the quality of your embroidery.

Design Centering and Placement Crooked or off-center designs are a top frustration. The fix? Fold your hat to find the true center seam, mark it with a washable marker, and align it with your hoop’s center mark or V-notch. For extra precision, digitize a placement line along the brim or back edge to guide your embroidery. Keep your design at least half an inch away from straps or edges to avoid awkward overlaps.

Hooping Technique and Slippage Improper hooping is the root of most registration issues. Always hoop hats as tightly as possible—if the fabric shifts during stitching, your design will too. Use the corner table method for tricky backs, especially with thick velcro straps. Pull the fabric taut and smooth, and consider using sticky-back stabilizer or even small clamps for extra grip, especially on mesh or unstructured caps.

Sweatband Management Don’t stitch through the sweatband! Either pull it out of the way or keep it tucked inside, depending on your design placement. This prevents distortion and keeps the hat comfortable for the wearer.

Needle Maintenance A dull or bent needle can wreak havoc. There’s no hard rule for needle changes, but frequent checks and timely replacements are a good habit—especially if you’re running your machine for long hours or using tough materials.

Troubleshooting Checklist:

• Double-check thread and bobbin tension before every run.
• Mark and align the center seam for perfect placement.
• Hoop tightly, using stabilizer and clamps as needed.
• Keep the sweatband out of the embroidery area.
• Replace needles regularly to avoid skipped stitches or thread breaks.

By following these protocols, you’ll minimize mistakes and keep your hats looking sharp from the first stitch to the last.

4.2 Hat-Type Specific Solutions: Velcro, Snapbacks, and Fitted Caps

Not all hats are created equal—each closure style comes with its own quirks and challenges. Here’s how to tailor your approach for flawless results, no matter the hat type.

Velcro Strap Backs: These are the trickiest. The thick vertical strap creates an uneven surface that can easily catch the needle or throw off your alignment. Use the corner table method for maximum stability, and consider a smaller hoop to better control the thick area. Double up on tearaway stabilizer if needed, and be extra vigilant about hooping tightly to avoid shifting.

Snapbacks (Adjustable with Holes): Snapbacks are a bit more forgiving. Their consistent surface makes hooping and stitching easier. Still, ensure the strap is out of the way and the fabric is flat. A standard round hoop or D-shaped frame works well here, and sticky-back stabilizer can help keep everything in place.

Fitted Caps (No Adjustment): Fitted caps are the easiest to embroider on the back—no straps, no gaps, just a stable canvas. Use your preferred hooping method and focus on centering and tension. These hats are ideal for beginners or when you want to showcase intricate designs.

Mesh and Unstructured Caps: These hats can be floppy and hard to stabilize. Adhesive stabilizers are your best friend here—press the hat firmly onto the sticky surface before hooping. For extra support, use two layers of stabilizer or add temporary spray adhesive.

Pro Tip: For garment embroidery challenges (like shirts or jackets), magnetic hoops such as MaggieFrame provide consistent tension and easy operation, but remember—these are not suitable for hats. Stick to specialized cap frames or hoops for hat backs.

Quick Reference Table:

By adapting your technique to each hat style, you’ll conquer the quirks and deliver professional results every time.

5. Advanced Digitizing Techniques for Curved Hat Backs

Using the best digitizing software for embroidery for the back of a hat is where embroidery transforms from mere stitching to true artistry. Unlike flat garments, hat backs feature compound curves and unpredictable surfaces—meaning your digitizing game needs to be on point. Here’s how to ensure your designs look crisp, balanced, and professional, no matter how tricky the curve.

5.1 Adapting Designs for Compound Curvatures

Understanding the Curve

Hat backs aren’t just curved—they’re compound curves, changing shape from top to bottom and side to side. Before digitizing, measure the specific curvature of your hat style and visualize how your design will wrap around it.

Radial Adjustments

For circular or arched logos, shrink the design slightly and apply radial adjustments to compensate for the curve. This helps prevent distortion, especially at the top and sides where the curvature is most pronounced.

Stitch Angle Modifications

Adjust your stitch angles to follow the hat’s natural curve. Instead of a uniform angle, vary it across the design so the stitches flow with the fabric, minimizing puckering and gaps.

Pull Compensation

Curved surfaces amplify the push and pull of embroidery stitches. Increase pull compensation at the top of the design, where the curve is steepest, to keep outlines crisp and prevent the design from “shrinking” or warping.

Multi-Axis Visualization

If your digitizing software allows, preview the design on a 3D model of a hat back. This lets you catch potential issues before you ever hit “start” on your machine.

Corner Compensation for Text

When digitizing text that follows an arc, use compensation techniques to keep corners sharp and legible. Run stitches often provide better definition on curves than satin stitches.

Artwork Simplification

Less is more. Limit your color palette and avoid excessive detail—high-contrast, simple designs hold up best on curved, high-visibility surfaces.

Workflow Snapshot:

1. Measure the hat’s back curve.
2. Apply 3–5% radial shrinkage to your design.
3. Adjust stitch angles and pull compensation for the curve.
4. Simulate the design on a 3D model, if possible.
5. Test on a real hat, refine, and repeat.

5.2 Stitch Sequencing and Density Optimization

Center-Out, Bottom-Up Sequencing

Always digitize hat back designs to stitch from the center outward and from the bottom up. This approach works with the hat’s natural tension, minimizing buckling and misregistration.

Progressive Density Building

Start with lighter density stitches at the top of the design—where the curve is steepest—and gradually increase density toward the bottom. This helps the design lay flat and prevents distortion.

Underlay Patterns

Use edge-run underlay stitches to stabilize the design, especially on curved or stretchy areas. Underlay provides a foundation that keeps top stitches smooth and in place.

Testing and Refinement

No two hats are exactly alike. Always test your digitized design on a sample cap, check for distortion, and adjust density, angles, or compensation as needed. A rigorous test-adjust-refine cycle is the hallmark of a pro digitizer.

By mastering these advanced digitizing techniques, you’ll turn the back of any hat into a showcase for your embroidery skills—no matter how wild the curve.

6. Method Comparison: Traditional vs. Specialized Approaches

When it comes to embroidering the back of hats, your method matters. Should you stick with the tried-and-true traditional hoops, or invest in specialized frame systems? Let’s break down the pros, cons, and best use cases for each approach—so you can choose the right tool for every job.

6.1 Traditional Hooping: Corner-Table Method and Limitations

The Corner-Table Method This classic technique uses a standard round hoop, positioned at the corner of a table or ironing board to flatten the back of the hat. It’s a favorite for occasional embroiderers and those working with fitted or snapback caps.

Setup Time and Alignment Challenges Traditional hooping is budget-friendly and works with most embroidery machines. However, it can be fiddly: aligning the design, centering the seam, and keeping the fabric taut all require patience and practice. Velcro strap backs, in particular, can be a headache due to their thickness and uneven surface.

Compatibility with Hat Types

• Fitted caps: Good results, easy to hoop.
• Snapbacks: Fairly straightforward.
• Velcro straps: Challenging—may require extra stabilizer and careful hooping.
• Mesh/unstructured caps: Risk of slippage and distortion unless you use adhesive stabilizer.

Production Considerations Traditional hooping is best for one-off or small-batch jobs. Rehooping is often needed for larger designs, and manual alignment increases the risk of misregistration.

6.2 Specialized Frame Systems: Efficiency and Quality Tradeoffs

Multi-Position Devices (8-in-1 Systems) and D-Shaped Frames Specialized frame systems, like the 8-in-1 device or D-shaped fast frames, are designed for hard-to-reach areas—including hat backs. They use sticky-back stabilizer and often feature alignment notches for precision.

Efficiency and Quality These frames shine in production environments. Setup takes a bit longer, but once dialed in, they offer consistent placement, better tension control, and less risk of slippage. You can tackle complex, multi-surface designs without constant rehooping.

Speed/Quality Comparisons

• Multi-position systems: Highest alignment precision, excellent for custom and high-volume work.
• Back-of-cap clamps: Fast setup, great tension, but limited to back embroidery.
• Magnetic hoops (for garments): Fast and user-friendly, but not suitable for hats.

Compatibility with Hat Types

• Fitted and snapbacks: Excellent results, easy setup.
• Velcro straps: Specialized frames handle thickness and unevenness better than traditional hoops.
• Mesh/unstructured caps: Adhesive stabilizer combined with frame systems keeps everything flat and secure.

Quick Comparison Table:

Expert Takeaway: If you’re just starting out or only embroider hats occasionally, traditional hooping is a solid, low-cost entry point. For pros and businesses, investing in specialized frame systems pays off in speed, consistency, and the ability to handle any hat style with confidence.

Ready to level up your hat embroidery game? Master these methods, adapt your approach to each project, and you’ll turn the back of every cap into a billboard for your embroidery skills.

7. Visual Learning Hub: Video Demonstrations and Tutorials

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a good embroidery video is priceless—especially when it comes to mastering the back of a hat. The rise of video-based learning has transformed how embroiderers tackle tricky, three-dimensional projects, and nowhere is this more evident than in back-of-hat embroidery. Let’s dive into the world of visual tutorials and see why they’re the secret sauce for embroidery success.

Why Video Tutorials Matter

Traditional text instructions can leave you scratching your head when faced with the compound curves and closure quirks of a cap. That’s why the embroidery community has shifted toward detailed video walkthroughs, where you can watch every step unfold in real time. These tutorials break down the process into three essential phases: hooping, stitching, and finishing—each with its own set of visual cues and pro tips.

Hooping Techniques on Display

From the “corner of the table” method to the use of D-shaped fast frames and eight-in-one devices, video creators show exactly how to flatten and secure the back of a hat. You’ll see sweatband management in action—pulling it out of the way or tucking it in, depending on the design placement. For mesh and unstructured caps, videos highlight the magic of sticky-back stabilizer and the importance of pressing the fabric flat, sometimes with the help of clamps for extra grip. The difference between using a traditional round hoop and a specialized fast frame becomes crystal clear when you see how quickly and precisely the latter can be set up.

Machine Setup and Orientation Flipping

Ever wondered how to get your text right-side up on a curved surface? Video guides walk you through flipping your design 180 degrees in your machine settings, tracing the outline to ensure perfect placement, and making those all-important presser foot and tension adjustments. Whether you’re working with a Ricoma, Brother, or Melco machine, you’ll find step-by-step demonstrations of loading the frame, centering the needle, and checking alignment with V-notches or marked guides.

Stitching and Troubleshooting—Unfiltered

The best tutorials don’t just show the perfect stitch—they show what happens when things go wrong and often include links to free machine embroidery designs for practice. You’ll watch creators adjust bobbin tension on the fly, redo a design when the thread is too loose or too tight, and troubleshoot common issues like excess bobbin thread or skipped stitches. These real-time problem-solving moments are gold for learners, offering both reassurance and practical fixes.

Finishing Touches: Tearaway and Clean-Up

Once the stitching is done, videos demonstrate the satisfying process of tearing away stabilizer, trimming jump stitches, and inspecting the finished design for quality. You’ll see up-close shots of the embroidery—how it sits on the seam, how the text curves (or doesn’t), and how to handle any stray threads or marks.

Frame-Specific and Hat-Type Variations

Visual content doesn’t stop at one method. Tutorials compare the results of traditional hoops versus fast frames, show adaptations for snapbacks, velcro straps, and fitted caps, and even tackle mesh hats with their unique challenges. You’ll see how to adjust for different closures, manage thick straps, and keep everything smooth and centered.

The Evolution of Embroidery Education

From early, basic technique videos to today’s comprehensive, workflow-driven tutorials—including short-form TikTok clips for quick tips—the embroidery community has embraced visual learning at every level. Whether you’re a beginner looking to hoop your first cap or a seasoned pro troubleshooting a stubborn thread, there’s a video out there that speaks your language.

Ready to Level Up?

Don’t just read about it—watch it happen. Search for back-of-hat embroidery tutorials on YouTube, and you’ll find a vibrant, supportive community eager to share their knowledge, mistakes, and triumphs. Sometimes, all it takes is seeing someone wrestle a snapback into a fast frame (and win) to give you the confidence to try it yourself.

8. Conclusion: Key Takeaways for Hat Back Embroidery Success

Mastering embroidery on the back of hats is all about blending the right tools, thoughtful preparation, and a willingness to adapt. Start by choosing the best hooping method for your specific cap style on your embroidery machine for hats and shirts—whether it’s a traditional round hoop for fitted caps or a fast frame for trickier closures. Always double-check your design orientation, flipping it 180 degrees to ensure it reads correctly when worn. Adjust your approach for each hat type, paying close attention to sweatbands, straps, and fabric structure. And don’t forget: successful back-of-hat embroidery relies on designs digitized for curves and precise placement. By leveraging specialized frames and stabilizers, you’ll boost both your efficiency and your results. With these essentials in your toolkit, every cap becomes a canvas for professional, eye-catching embroidery.

9. Frequently Asked Questions

9.1 Q: What is the maximum design size for the back of a hat?

A: The maximum design size depends on your hat style and hooping system. Most standard round hoops for cap backs are around 12cm (4.5 inches) in diameter, fitting well within the curved opening. Fast frames or specialized back-of-cap clamps may allow for slightly larger or custom-shaped designs, but always check your frame’s dimensions and the available flat area on your specific hat. For detailed guidance on embroidery hoop sizes, consult your machine manual.

9.2 Q: What stabilizer should I use for mesh caps?

A: For mesh or unstructured caps, sticky-back tearaway stabilizer is highly recommended. It holds the flexible mesh in place and prevents shifting during stitching. You can also double up on stabilizer layers for extra support. Some embroiderers use a combination of sticky-back and temporary spray adhesive for especially floppy hats.

9.3 Q: How do I fix thread tension issues on hat backs?

A: Thread tension problems—like excess bobbin thread showing or uneven stitches—are common on curved surfaces. Always check and adjust both top and bobbin tension before starting. If you notice issues mid-project, pause and tweak your settings. Regular needle checks and replacements also help maintain consistent tension and prevent skipped stitches.

9.4 Q: How can I adapt commercial embroidery designs for the curved back of a cap?

A: To adapt a flat design for a curved hat back, use your digitizing software to apply slight radial shrinkage (typically 3–5%), adjust stitch angles to follow the curve, and increase pull compensation at the top of the design. Test your design on a sample cap and refine as needed. For arched text, digitize along the desired curve to match the shape of the hat back.

With these answers, you’re ready to tackle the most common challenges of back-of-hat embroidery—no guesswork required.